Thread Name: Why is ModernLib membership down? From: kamins at ModernLib.com ((Scot Kamins) Date: Mon Jan 29 14:25:49 2007 The number of folks renewing memberships in ModernLib is way down. While I don't purge the on-line subscriber records, I can assure you that paid membership is down by a huge percentage. I can't figure out why this is so. ModernLib keeps being updated and expanded, and yet we're not keeping old members or attracting many new ones. Any ideas about what's going on? ------------------------------------- From: readingstore at thebookscene.com ((readingstore@removed> Date: Mon Jan 29 15:36:28 2007 ML 1918-1970 flexis jacketed or unjacketed, and later editions with jackets are getting harder to find consistently in the 'wild' for the casual collector. ------------------------------------- From: archetype at 20ants.com ((20 Ants) Date: Mon Jan 29 16:02:55 2007 Hmmm... it doesn't seem that way to me. Sure, it's a lot harder to find F/F or NF/NF examples at low prices like in days of yore, but I see no general shortage of MLs (jacketed or not) today compared to a few years ago. Methinks it's just the passing of a trend. Collecting interests wax and wane, and this one is waning. Good for the collectors who stick with it, though. As a seller I find less than stellar examples nearly impossible to sell. The 'Net databases are glutted with dozens if not hundreds of copies per title, per database. The casual reader has plenty to choose from and the true collector still generally won't pay anywhere near value for a VG/VT. I've got 20-30 MLs piled up and ready to catalog, but I'm ignoring them in favor of other books that I can sell far mor readily. I don't like the situation, but that's the way I see it. I still think the most cost-effective library of literature is accumulating reading copies of MLs. I also think that a lifetime of fascination and pursuit is contained in the collecting of nice copies, varients, and ephemera of ML. Such a pursuit could take you from cradle to grave and not be complete. ------------------------------------- From: goodbooks at webtv.net ((JOSEPH HILL) Date: Mon Jan 29 16:30:38 2007 In regards to "new members" The young people that come into the market today have no fond memories of the series form school days....'tis just a batch of old reprints to them.. I think that you will find the average. age of the ML collector to be rather high. ------------------------------------- From: dchock7 at aol.com ((dchock7@removed> Date: Mon Jan 29 17:11:54 2007 This is a good point. None of us are getting any younger. The key question- how can we publicize collecting Modern Library books? ------------------------------------- From: kamins at ModernLib.com ((Scot Kamins) Date: Mon Jan 29 17:24:22 2007 There are a HUGE number of baby boomers approaching retirement age. Many of these pre-computer folks were readers in their youth. (Remember that the first personal computers didn't come out until 1977, and the Internet didn't come into popular use until the early 90's.) Folks have more time for hobbies as they get older. Therefore these are the folks whom I suspect will be the "new" collectors. ------------------------------------- From: goodbooks at webtv.net ((JOSEPH HILL) Date: Mon Jan 29 18:10:42 2007 I will try yet again- A man on :Antiques Road show" had fine a fine collection of cartoon dolls (1910-1920) that were a big hit in the newspapers of the day. He could not understand why they did not bring a higher price. It was pointed out to him that few people were alive today that could RELATE to them. ------------------------------------- From: mark.lscv at mindspring.com ((Mark Braley) Date: Mon Jan 29 18:39:33 2007 That may explain the lack of new subscribers, but what about the failure of current subscribers to re-up. Unfortunately I can't come up with a reason other than they have changed the focus of their collecting or perhaps too much is available to them on the website that doesn't require a subscription? Any thoughts on making the entire site except for a little teaser of information available only by subscription? Some testimonials from some of us that appreciate all the info upgrades urging former subscribers to re-up? Mark Braley ------------------------------------- From: tb0jwi1 at wpo.cso.niu.edu ((John Ireland) Date: Mon Jan 29 20:10:07 2007 Though I love books and I am an English teacher, I collect ML books in an attempt to relate to my father. When he died in 2002, I inherited 45 ML's he bought at various places during WWII--one book had a sales slip from Macy's in New York listing the 5 titles he bought that day, all of which have 271 titles on the dj reverse. When I buy a ML book with 271 titles, I feel a rush. The year after he died, I was at the Printers Row book fair in Chicago, and I struck up a conversation about ML's with a chap who put me onto the ModernLib website. Adding to my father's collection was only a whim at the time; but two years later, it became an addiction and I became a member. When I need to login as a member, I feel a special part of something larger than myself, larger than my father. It connects me with a time long ago, when my father was a young minister in Fort Myers, FLorida. Looking at my collection on the shelves, reading the titles, handling the books, appreciating the dustjackets, I can feel my father's presence. ModernLib facilitates this for me. So much useful information and images!! It might not be a bad idea to make more of this info available only with membership. And perhaps there are many, many more people who will become collectors as their parents pass on. ------------------------------------- From: rsanger at sangerswysen.com ((Robert Sanger) Date: Mon Jan 29 21:01:14 2007 John Ireland's post struck a chord. I remember the three or four Modern Library books my parents had in our living room book cases. But I thought I would pass this on: My thirteen year old daughter (the youngest -- my oldest is 37!) has become fascinated with the ML collection. This summer, she helped me organize the collection, using Toledano's Guide like a pro. Yesterday, she came into my study with several ML books. She suggested that we pick one and that she, her Mom and I all read it and discuss each day's progress at dinner. After some discussion about the various books, she chose Samuel Butler's Erewhon. We have three copies (yes, I need to dispose of some duplicates) and we all sat in front of the fireplace on a rainy Sunday each reading the same book. What to say? ------------------------------------- From: goodbooks at webtv.net ((JOSEPH HILL) Date: Tue Jan 30 15:23:29 2007 My eldest daughter sure loved these two posts! From- > IRENE DUDLEY Sent- > Tuesday, January 30, 2007 10:46 AM To- > goodbooks@webtv.net Subject- > FW: Re: Why is ModernLib membership down? Wow! Did you just wish that this happened in our household? Oh, well. How come you didn't call back the other night? I didn't realize it until it was past my bedtime. Not much to report. Lots of sick kids in Central Oregon means that I am BUSY. Luckily, our kids are healthy. take care, Irene ------------------------------------- From: goodbooks at webtv.net ((JOSEPH HILL) Date: Tue Jan 30 19:18:06 2007 This from the young one- From- > Julie M Jorgensen Sent- > Tuesday, January 30, 2007 1:55 PM To- > Joe Hill Subject- > Modern Library Hi Dad. Those were nice posts. I can certainly relate to books being a connection to parent and child. I have many memories of the Oakland house, going downstairs and looking at your books. Not to mention being fascinated by the sample cigarette collection, and the mystery shelves in your desk (do you still have that desk?) Let's not forget me falling asleep on the couch while you tried your best to instill a Shakespeare Play upon me! Ah well... Cherish what you do have, not what you don't. Love you! P.S. Can you BART over here one day? We'd like to take you to Bancheros for dinner. Julie. ------------------------------------- From: zebradlj at yahoo.com ((Darrell Johnson) Date: Tue Jan 30 15:42:44 2007 I'm not sure why its dropping, but I have a suggestion about how it might get turned around eventually. A few of the responses have suggested that younger people feel no connection to the old books. Perhaps so. But Modern Library is still going and younger people may be establishing a connection to the newer stuff. Our task, then, would be to build the bridge from the current stuff back into our older stuff. But that means fostering the connection (or continuity) from 1917 to 2007. Scot, as we know, limits his site to 1917-1970. So we need a new site that picks up 1977-1985 and 1992-Present and onwards, AND emphasizes the family connection to Scot's site. Create Modern Library Collectors in any genre and you increase the likelihood of ending up collectors of 1917-1970. ------------------------------------- From: GrmChiTown at aol.com ((GrmChiTown@removed> Date: Tue Jan 30 16:37:01 2007 This might work. There are a few bookstores that do display an entire case of currently issued ML paperbacks. Two examples I am aware of are Unabridged Books in Chicago's Lakeview area, an independent store popular with young adults; also the bookstore at the College of Charleston (South Carolina). Both these displays are downright lovely to behold. Unabridged offers a 10% discount for any book in the entire collection as an incentive. This is to say, there are stores that do display the full array of ML now just as they did "in the day" in my Macalester College bookstore, which is what got me started. I can just imagine an earnest young adult reader grabbing his first three or four paperback MLs off a current display case, then realizing they look quite cool on the shelf at home, then wondering how all this got started and how to build on it. ------------------------------------- From: HTatML at aol.com ((HTatML@removed> Date: Wed Feb 7 12:38:44 2007 All the aspects Joe mentions about older people collecting is probably true. But something else has happened : Some years ago many ML were visible on the shelves of the average store. You could pick a copy up for a few dollars. When you had forty or fifty you were hooked: you wanted the more difficult ones to find. Now few people can begin their collection without having to pay real money, so collecting never gets off the ground. ------------------------------------- From: rebecca263 at hotmail.com ((rebecca salame) Date: Wed Feb 7 15:16:42 2007 I;m not sure that I agree with tihs assessment. I am just a ML lover, not a REAL collector. That said, I still regularly buy ML books for a dollar apiece, or thereabouts. In fact, I periodically cull the herd by selling off my doubles. There is something happening though, I've noticed that lately I can't sell any of these beginner quality copies, not even at a dollar apiece! Only real collectors are buying, and they don't want the commons in used condition that I sell. ------------------------------------- From: archetype at 20ants.com ((20 Ants) Date: Wed Feb 7 15:48:09 2007 I think the basic issue derived from this whole discussion is that there's a diminishing quantity of "new" collectors. Existing collectors have the common MLs and thus are interested in getting the next tier of MLs. The number of folks who want the common MLs has dropped and similarly the number of modernlib.com members has dropped. It's why 99% of books, antiques, etc. should never be offered as "investments." Whatever the item is it's subject to the ebb and flow of popular culture's attention span. It's why bound 19'th Century periodicals can't be given away, while just a couple of decades ago they were like gold. A formerly blue chip antique like a piece of English copper luster ware has gathered dust for the last decade. It's why Beenie Babies can now be used to fill low spots in your yard. ------------------------------------- From: jklturner at sbcglobal.net ((Larry Turner) Date: Wed Feb 7 16:24:00 2007 While I agree with the comments below, I think it only serves to discuss the aspects of current ML collectors and not illuminate the central issue of "why don't current subscribers renew?" I think we need to look more closely at the site and examine how the bloom has come off the rose. In my past lives, I've been part of organizations which foundered, withered, atrophied, etc as the "cause" which brought them to existence in the first place no longer captivated the mass of members. We are describing how that cause has changed -- I think what we should address is how to recapture the energy which was once there. Perhaps the Internet, itself, while allowing the ML site to work has also robbed it of sufficient immediacy to make it appear less than captivating. Perhaps a more activist role, if added to current contents, would stimulate more interest; something like rationalizing the current market to support prices for value yet take advantage of offerings which are below "market" might be a stimulating exercise. Or something else. While less than one year into this madness, I have gathered over 280 volumes, some of questionable long term value and some few of great delight. And I'm having great fun. I picked up a beautiful FMLEd Clausewitz for a small (but fair) price last week and am very pleased. I'd love to have a crack at Rebecca's commons. But I am not eager to stand up to Henry's collection. So I suggest more current and active interactions around the site. To be sure, it would require effort to attain such. I'm willing .... What think, folks? ------------------------------------- From: kamins at ModernLib.com ((Scot Kamins) Date: Wed Feb 7 17:02:09 2007 Larry, I don't think I follow what you're saying. Can you give an example of what you mean? ------------------------------------- From: jklturner at sbcglobal.net ((Larry Turner) Date: Wed Feb 7 18:08:50 2007 I don't have a fully formed idea. I am thinking about activities might generate daily/weekly readership and involvement. If I could go to one site -- this site -- everyday and learn what was in the market this week for ML volumes of value, I would do that. E-Bay provides some information and ABE and Alibris are helpful and there are volumes offered now on the ML site. But they each direct searches in different ways, and there is no comprehensive listing which can be accessed -- whether a ML site subscriber or not. Such an organization of the market could be beneficial to collectors and thus to the ML site. I'm not trying to "sell" THIS idea as much as stimulate a discussion that moves beyond personal experiences about why people do and do not buy ML editions. Maybe a phone conversation could help. If you like, send me a number and I'll call, at your convenience. Thanks for your follow up question and your patience. I'm really excited about the site and my own ML gathering and am trying to participate in making it better. ------------------------------------- From: tb0jwi1 at wpo.cso.niu.edu ((John Ireland) Date: Wed Feb 7 20:12:26 2007 Have you ever had any kind of gathering for ML collectors? ------------------------------------- From: "Henton,Aaron" <AARON.HENTON@removed> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 16:46:44 -0600 After reading the many theories and ideas as to declining membership, I must humbly add my reason - I forgot. I have simply forgotten to write the check and send it in. The reminder e-mail is now printed and sitting with my bills, so at my next bill payment time, I'll be a paying member again. So, it's a simpler reason than the many theories It's a great site, and I (intend to) support it more as appreciation for the effort and content provided than as a personal collecting need. Great work Scot - my check will soon be in the mail. ------------------------------------- From: goodbooks at webtv.net ((JOSEPH HILL) Date: Wed Feb 7 22:11:17 2007 Yes, in Burbank, CA in 1999?. It was put together by Sam, Gottlieb who was doing a major book show in Burbank at that time. I think we had about 30? major Modern Library collectors in attendance; I think Scot has some photos of the event.. The two big deals at the meeting were the launch of th 2nd Ed. of the price Guide and the big do over the Illustrated Alice that had just been discovered. -------------------------------------