Thread Name: Have MLs in DJ become an endangered species? From: "Matthew Buckingham" <mdbuckingham@removed> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:46:14 -0800 In the recent exchange on erratum slips, I got the sense from several contributors that finding MLs in dust jacket (in bookstores) is becoming difficult to near impossible. Is this true? I'm sure it varies some from region to region and depends on how many good used bookstores you have to troll, but how many of you are noticing a marked decrease in ML supply in places where you once found plenty of books? My sense here in the Pacific Northwest is that the overall condition of books has gone down while prices have increased somewhat, but I'm still finding enough "good stuff" at affordable prices to make it worth my while. (I define "good stuff" as firsts in correct dj, flexible bindings in dj, and books with reinforced buckram bindings with no underlining or ex-lib marks. "Affordable" to me means under $10, under $20 for a first in first dj.) How is it where you are? Thanks for the tip about the erratum slip in "Thoughts on facsimile DJs, Errata Slips, etc?, by the way. I never noticed it before--and I've actually read my copy. ------------------------------------- From: Scot Kamins <kamins@removed> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:50:22 -0800 Where in the Pacific Northwest are you??? I live in Portland, and I can't find the quality of stuff you're talking about. - Kamins the Not-finder ------------------------------------- From: GOODBOOKS@removed> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:25:50 -0800 (PST) Never mind finding dust jackets,finding a used bookstore shall soon become a major problem. In the last few years over a dozen used bookstores have closed in the San Francisco area. Why pay rent when I can join ABE and list my stock for a few dollars? I predict that 10 years from now,you will be hard pressed to find a used bookstore anywhere other then on the web. ------------------------------------- From: "Joe Singleton" <joesingleton10@removed> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:02:24 -0600 Joe--tell us it aint so! Hang in there, we gotta have our old musty used bookstores (LIKE GOOD BOOKS) to dig for flexes and firsts in the ML series. The same thing was said about local guitar shops down here when MARS came along, but most of the good small shops are still here. I suspect that you are the same way and will be hard pressed to leave your storefront. Hail to the antiquarian bookseller entrepreneurs, press on!! ------------------------------------- From: GrmChiTown@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:40:00 EST Yes, I have noticed the same trend. I think you are on to something. From time to time I go to bookstores in Springfield and Chicago, Illinois; and in Milwaukee, which have an ML section. Until about one year ago, each store would have several dozen MLs in stock, most of which were without dj, but yet several with dj and worth looking at. At one store in downtown Milwaukee about 18 months ago I purchased, for example, a three-volume ML set with dj of the Fall of the Roman Empire at a very decent (low two-figure) price. The sales clerk smiled at me and commented, "I wondered how long that would last." So she knew. Now, the only MLs in stock currently at that same bookstore are without djs and not even in very good condition at that. All the rest are gone. So is this good news or bad news? I guess good news in that larger numbers of people are joining us and are confirming our wisdom, but bad news in that the prices will surely be going up as MLs with djs become comparative rarities. ------------------------------------- From: "Joe Singleton" <joesingleton10@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 09:17:56 -0600 Maybe they are all listing them on Ebay, and selling them that way. There is a major used-book store chain here in Houston that suspiciously hardly ever has MLs w/ DJs. For the size and presence that the store has, it's MLs in proportion to the number of used books that they carry is pretty much zero. It makes me wonder if the buyer/s maybe know about ebay, or similar source, and send them directly to a bidding war. ------------------------------------- From: j b krygier <jbkrygie@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:24:47 -0500 Two local bookstores that keep a ML bookcase seem to have a regular supply - about the same as when I moved to central OH five years ago. Mostly hard-cover, but I did get a flex Gautier with a DJ for $8 a month or so back. Another that does not segregate MLs seems to provide me with something I don't have about once every other month (this is a store with lots of 40s and earlier books). A recent trip to Madison WI also found the one bookstore there that has a case full of MLs to have about the same as usual. This is a place that turns up DJed copies of titles like "The Island Within." A few other bookstores there had a few dozen nice MLs in stock. So from this limited assessment - stores that seek out MLs or have access to old stock seem to have a decent supply. Alas - most are the more common titles from the 50s and later. I might be willing to say that bookstores that don't have a ML section seem to have fewer MLs than maybe 5 years ago - sort of corresponding to fewer and fewer older (pre 60s) books in general. But then eBay seems to consistently have about 400 MLs at any given time and that number does not seem to vary much. There are still alot of MLs out there. But it takes alot of time to root them out. Columbus and Madison are ML cities, and I certainly agree that Milwaukee (near my hometown) is not anymore. I guess a ML city would be one with at least one bookstore with a substantial case of MLs. Someone needs to make a map. ------------------------------------- From: Sharon Biederman <sbiederm@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 12:55:47 -0500 (EST) There is no question that the supply of older ML editions in dust jacket is dwindling, but I don't think this problem is limited to the Modern Library. In general, bookstores are not acquiring better stock in the ways they did in the past. Because so many used book stores have closed, people have fewer opportunities to walk in and sell their old books, which used to be a wonderful source of inventory. Bookseller trade publications with Wanted and For Sale features have also disappeared in the last few years. Although I also buy and sell on ebay, I would strongly encourage ML collectors and collectors in general to visit their local used bookstores. In general you will find better prices and have the satisfaction of patronizing a business that needs your support. ------------------------------------- From: Jay Satterfield <jsatterf@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:59:57 -0600 I am not a collector so I never go after rarities, but I did need a nice selection of exemplars from different periods when I was writing the dissertation that turned into the book recently published. I was able to gather together what I now realize is a pretty good shelf of MLs in dust jackets in just a few months in Iowa City. There were plenty of titles on the shelves of the used bookstores there. The note below that Columbus and Madison are good ML cities, and my own experience with Iowa City suggests that the key to access to a good supply of MLs is proximity to a large university. ------------------------------------- From: GrmChiTown@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 14:14:29 EST Most interesting, in that my own experience with MLs dates back to my college years when I began buying MLs from the ML bookcase at my college bookstore. I wanted to supplement the assigned required reading with some of my own and I was beginning to turn to books to deal with some of my own issues. Though I guess there are no longer specifically designed ML bookcases in these stores, maybe today's universities and colleges still have staff and faculty who purchased their books many years ago from the ML bookshelf. I really like the concept that there are "ML cities." And unfortunately I too am seeing some of my favorite bookstore haunts close down. It is a shame. ------------------------------------- From: Allbooks@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:23:48 EST Need I say that Sharon's opinion is one I share? Since this thread is about bookstores, I hope I am not treading too close to the edge of the rules in pointing out that there is one in Kensington, MD (near Washington) that has a few hundred MLs on the shelf. I should point out that I do not issue catalogs, nor list ML online. This is not the place to debate all the factors affecting used bookstores these days, but perhaps one not well known is that many charities are now selling their choice material on eBay and/or other online services instead of their public sales, where dealers buy. OTOH, I think the smaller number of surviving shops means that private individuals wishing to liquidate their collections, estates, etc. tend to concentrate on those survivors. Is this list a good place to compile a list of ML specialist shops and other dealers? The only other one I know of is Sam Gottlieb of Camelback Books in Phoenix, and I'm not altogether sure whether Sam has an open shop. Surely there are others. There are of course mail order dealers well known on this list. ------------------------------------- From: "John M. Wolansky" <jwol@removed> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 18:40:21 -0500 My recollection is that about three years ago there were about 15,000 Modern Library books listed on ABE. Today it is about 30,000. I live in an area that is book rich in terms of book stores. I can drive 50 miles South to Philadelphia and another 50 or so to Delaware and Maryland. Twenty miles to the East is New Jersey and in another hour I am in New York City. I can go North from there into CT in short order or visit the Hudson Valley book stores. Armed with a Used Book Lovers Guide and lists from the Yellow Pages on the net, I have visited each of these areas and more numerous times. I estimate that in the 3 1/2 years I have been at this at least 50 bookstores have closed and not been replaced. Some of the owners indicated the walk in business was slowing, perhaps because of the net growth, and the remaining walk in business was not enough to support the rental overhead. I am sure this is no surprise to those of you in the industry. Of the remaining stores, many if not most also sell on the net. While there may be a reduction in the number of Modern Library books in the remaining stores I visit, it does not seem appreciable, although the prices have been creeping upward this year. My opinion is they are not becoming endangered yet since they were mass produced for decades and the number on ABE will continue to grow. ------------------------------------- From: HTatML@removed> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:34:35 EST About 31,000 ML listed on ABE About 16,000 with dust jacket. Probably two thirds less than VG About 2,000 1st in dj. Probably two thirds or more less than VG. Anybody any idea of the number of ML collectors, half-hearted collectors, occasional collectors? ------------------------------------- From: GOODBOOKS@removed> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 10:24:36 -0800 (PST) Why does the word "probably"bother me? To try and come up with figures- 1.) How many guides have been sold? 2.) Number on this list? 3.) Number of ebay buyers of ML's? 4.) How many copies of Satterfield's book and other titles on ML have been sold? 5.) What's the circulation of MLC? etc, etc A lot of work here, if some person cares to take it on... -------------------------------------